I Didn’t Need DEI to Be Qualified—But I Needed It to Be Seen | The DEI Hiring Debate

She’s only here because of DEI.”

I’ve heard it whispered in boardrooms. I’ve seen it in comment sections. And let’s be real—if you’ve ever been a woman, a person of color, LGBTQ+, or from any marginalized background, you’ve probably heard it too.

But here’s the truth: I didn’t need DEI to be qualified. I needed DEI to be SEEN.

In this episode, I’m diving deep into the DEI hiring debate—the myth of “meritocracy,” the reality of hiring bias, and why perception, not qualifications, has always dictated who gets access to leadership and opportunity.

We’ll cover:

• The research-backed truth about bias in hiring and promotions
• The weaponization of DEI backlash in corporate America
• What leaders, HR professionals, and decision-makers can do to level the playing field
• Real comments from my viral LinkedIn post—and my unfiltered responses 

📌 If you’ve ever been told you’re only in the room because of DEI, this episode is for you.

LinkedIn Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kimonenapier_dei-deib-activity-7292310205118238721-BWFY?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAA5FsA0BeDWD-UVieX08MMcsbHKfcMkGnLg

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Transcript

Kimone Napier (00:00)
I've heard it whispered in boardrooms, I've seen it scribbled in the comment sections, and I've watched people roll their eyes when someone like me takes the mic. And I hear things like, she's only here because of DEI, so let's talk about it.

Kimone Napier (00:13)
Welcome to Hire Breakthrough, a podcast dedicated to helping entrepreneurs like you take the breakdown out of their hiring breakthrough. If you're a founder who is ready to take back control and build your A team without the overwhelm, you are in the right place. Your host, Kimone Napier, is a hiring strategist, speaker, consultant, and CEO of Hire Breakthrough. We're on a mission to help founders like you connect with the right talent to scale higher. Your time is way too valuable to stay stuck and we want to show you how to stop chasing unicorns, take an intentional approach to your talent strategy so you can make your next right hire. Let's get started.

Kimone Napier (01:02)
When people say DEI hires are ruining everything, what they're really saying is we miss when leadership, power, and opportunity all look the same. So this conversation isn't about merit, it's about perception. And today we're going to break that down. So before we dive in, for those who are new to DEI in this conversation, DEI stands for diversity, equity, and inclusion, and it refers to practices and policies intended to support people who come from

Varying backgrounds or marginalized backgrounds and what it really does is give them the resources they need to thrive in the workplace and Dei is not about solely race, but it takes into fact factors like race gender sexual orientation To really help people who are coming from backgrounds that are not the standard that are different to really help them succeed So that's really what Dei is

And the reason this conversation came about is that there's been so much conversation around DEI. And what I actually did was that I actually put up a LinkedIn post, which I will share in the show notes. And it got a lot of traction just because I was honest in sharing my own personal story with DEI. Because the conversation around DEI has always been that if someone who fits the mold of what someone would think is DEI or DEI higher is that they're not qualified. Whereas in my experience, it's really not been about qualifications because the qualification has always been there, especially for me, I'll talk about myself, but it's been about getting that visibility, being seen in spaces that...

I might not have been seen because I don't necessarily fit the traditional mold. So that's really what this conversation is about. So every time a woman or a black person or anyone from a marginalized background gets hired or promoted, the assumption isn't that they worked for it. What it really is is that they were handed something they didn't deserve. And so what I want to do is share a comment from my LinkedIn post that really stood out. And so.

One of the comments was, if DEI is about giving people a chance to be seen, why did they choose the worst marketing and PR strategy in history? People hear diversity and assume quotas, not qualifications. And in response to this post, DEI really didn't fail at marketing. DEI was intentionally rebranded as unfair by the same people who benefit from keeping things the same. Because let's just be honest here, what really never gets questioned is number one, hiring based off a culture fit. And hiring based off a culture fit really means hiring people who are the same. That's really what it means. And it usually also means hiring people who make leadership feel comfortable. That's what it really means. The second thing is hiring based off of nepotism. We know nepotism has been a problem for generations and generations. What it has done is given unqualified people positions of power.

And that has been happening for a long time. And then the third thing is of course hiring based off of gut instinct. And that's not necessarily the most horrible thing, but we know that oftentimes, more oftentimes than not, it's just bias with a fancy name. But somehow the only thing people say that is unfair is DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion. So let's get real about it. DEI didn't create bias in hiring. What it did was it exposed it.

And that's exactly why people are fighting so hard to dismantle it.

Kimone Napier (04:53)
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Kimone Napier (05:21)
And so where the conversation went next was, you know, there was an argument about merit and hiring bias. And so what it really was is that, the most qualified person should always get the job. And yes, yes, that sounds really nice, right? But let's really talk about what actually happens more often times than not in hiring.

And of course, I'm going to give you a research. So the first thing is that there was a study done by the National Bureau of Economic Research that sent identical resumes of hundreds, to hundreds of employers. And the only difference was the names. One had a more traditional white sounding type of name. And then the other one, had a different type of name that could be perceived as more black sounding.

And what the result was, was that the white candidate got 50 % more callbacks for the same qualification. But wait, of course, it gets a little bit worse. Another study tested hiring bias with two identical resumes. And this time, both of the candidates had felony convictions. One was white and one was black. And the result was the white candidate with the felony was still more likely to get a job offer than the black candidate.

So based off of just the research alone, we also have to stop pretending like hiring isn't always has been about the most qualified person getting the job. When we've had things like nepotism and old boys club and you know, a friend of a friend and all and things like that. And you know, it's I'm not saying it's the worst thing, but we have to pretend that

When someone says that DEI is about, this person just got this job because of DEI, they're not qualified for the job. With all these other factors that has been in the hiring process for generations, it has never been about the most qualified person getting the job. Because if that were true, then why do white candidates with less experience, lower education, and even a criminal record?

still have an easier time getting hired than somebody from a minority background, somebody who's black, who have done everything right. So we have to be honest in this conversation because this is also the thing. When we're talking about DEI, we have to be clear, DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, isn't just about black folks.

And I think that has to be said, it's not just about Black folks, it's not just about Latinos or Indigenous people or any one specific demographic. DEI includes so many different types of people. First thing, it includes white women who were once shut out of leadership roles because we have to think about that in the United States, women being in the workforce has not been around for the longest amount of time. For a while, women were expected to be at home taking care of the family and had to fight to vote, had to fight to actually work in the workplace. so women being in leadership roles, specifically white women, has not been the most modern thing. It hasn't been that long. So...

DEI includes white women who are shut out of those leadership roles. It also includes people who are disabled or identify that way, fighting for workplace access. It includes LGBTQ plus individuals navigating bias and hiring. There is even age in that. And I've been a person, you I've experienced age discrimination, not as older person, but as a younger person. It goes both ways.

And a lot of people don't realize that, but I've experienced that, sitting in rooms and I'm the youngest one and I've, achieved more, than some of my peers and have, lot of things to say and, well, why should we listen to her? She's young, you know, that's a form of discrimination when a lot of my ideas, were really helpful.

but there's also older employees facing age discrimination as well. So all of that comes into play. And of course, there's also veterans transitioning into the civilian workforce. But when people keep saying, DEI hires are ruining everything, what they're really saying is that we miss it when the room looked exactly the same. That's really the conversation here. And we have to keep it real. The biggest beneficiaries of DEI policies, and this is based off of research, this is based off of statistics, the biggest beneficiaries are white women. So when politicians or corporations and companies are gutting their DEI programs, they're not just hurting black and brown professionals. They're hurting everyone. And so we have to take these things into account. Another comment that was left on this LinkedIn post was, the most qualified person should get the job regardless of race or gender. just be the best and it'll work out. And that sounds lovely and perfect. Like in the perfect world that would be the way it has to be. But if merit alone was enough, we wouldn't really need to have this conversation. Hiring isn't just about skills. It's about who leadership perceives as qualified and

What diversity, equity, inclusion, DEI forces organizations to do is to check their biases in those perceptions. So we can't just say like the most qualified person should get the job because if that were true, would we really truly need DEI? We wouldn't. And DEI has helped so many people, not just minorities or someone who identifies as black. It's helped so many other people. So we have to be honest about that. Now, of course, since we're having this conversation, we can't have it without talking about what's really happening right now. So in February of 2025, there has been so much conversation around DEI and there's been a political attack on DEI.

So what's happening is DEI programs are being defunded, they're being banned, they're being erased. We have states like Florida and Texas that have passed laws banning DEI initiatives, in public institutions. The Supreme Court has overturned affirmative action in higher education. And then of course corporations, they're quietly rolling back DEI efforts, most of them, some of them it's been very public. And a lot of...

it has really been out of fear of lawsuits or fear of backlash. And a lot of times it's been the excuse that they've been waiting for. And so what I really want to talk about at this point too, was a lot of companies started to create a lot of DEI policies post pandemic. So we all know about George Floyd and what happened there.

We have instances like Breonna Taylor and all of these type of horrible things that took place that were very public. And a lot of corporations and companies, what they did was they created DEI policies in response to that. But what it really was, and let's just be honest, a lot of these corporations and companies created these policies out of fear of cancel culture, out of fear of being outed or being seen as not being.

equitable not being inclusive is really why a lot of these places created these DEI policies. And now that there's been backlash with DEI from a political standpoint, a lot of companies are rolling it back or getting rid of their DEI teams and all of that. And it's been the excuse that they've been waiting for. They really weren't about

equitable this they were about inclusiveness or diversity was just something to be that was done because they didn't want to be ousted as not being equitable because at the height of all of these things happening that was the conversations that were happening so we have to just talk about that but i want to do is read another comment because it really stood out to me someone said suddenly along comes dei and now white men are struggling with everyone

while everyone else is getting help. And you see, this is what they want you to believe. And I've said it, earlier on, and I've talked about everyone who benefits from DEI. But if DEI didn't work, no one would be fighting this hard to dismantle it. We have to talk about that because the real power holders in this country, they're not worried about DEI. What they're worried about is keeping things exactly the way they are. And the easiest way to do that is to convince people

that diversity is the real threat. That's really the way to do this. And so we've talked about this problem, but we have to really talk about what can actually be done about it. Because I know many of you listening, your leaders, your decision makers, your professionals who actually want to get this right. Here's the thing, DEI isn't just about representation, because that's also been a thing. People...

we're saying, and I've had this conversation, I mean, I've experienced this for myself from a personal standpoint, is, people inviting me to things. I'll give you even an example. I was actually invited to an event that really had nothing to do with me. And they wanted to feature me and, you know, the whole nine yards. And I wondered, I was like,

you don't even, you don't know me or anything, you know, thank you for the opportunity. But what I really knew that was going on because I had insight into this situation was everyone in the room identified as white and they needed, you know, someone to look a little bit different. So they, what they wanted to do was use my blackness in that moment.

And so DEI isn't about that. I don't want you to hear diversity, equity, inclusion and think like, well, okay, I have to put someone who looks diverse. I don't want you to just think about that. DEI is about building a workplace where the best talent actually rises. It's not just, you know, about having someone who fits what we think of diversity, you know, someone who's black, someone who's a Latina and just putting them there.

It's about building that workplace that is not just about the way someone looks, their race, how they identify. You want to make sure you're building a workplace that the best talent is actually going to rise and is actually an inclusive environment. I think that's the place where a lot of companies and leaders really miss out on that. So let's talk about what this actually looks like. So the first thing,

expand your hiring pipelines. You have to stop relying on the same schools, the same networks, and the same internal referrals. Because if you're saying you want more diversity, you want more people who don't just think like you, you can't just be looking for people in the same places. You're going to have to broaden your horizons because that's how bias gets baked into the hiring process. Literally, that's how it gets done.

And so, at hire breakthrough, when we're working with, you know, our clients, we're looking for talent from a variety of places. We're thinking about the big picture because you can't just keep looking in the same place. Like, for example, if you're going to source all your talent from one specific group, that's one specific network, you're not going to get

diversity, you're not going to differences in the way that you would want them. You can't just keep going to the same places. What instead you should be doing, you should be sourcing talent from all types of places. You can use, of course, your traditional places, but of course, try sourcing some talent from underrepresented communities, HBCUs, professional association for women, all that type of stuff.

all these different types of networks, you really need to expand your pipeline. The second thing, we have to start holding hiring managers accountable. We really have to because sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes the hiring manager has no experience in hiring. They have no experience in the DEI world. And so what I think a lot of companies need to do is they need to really train, you know, their managers in

how to have a recruitment process, an inclusive and equitable process. We have to remove this subjective culture fit language and replace it with a measurable criteria. This is why a lot of companies are now moving to skill-based hiring. Because if you look at regular job descriptions, it's all about like responsibilities, responsibilities.

Whereas a lot of companies now are shifting to hiring people based off of their actual skills and promoting them based off of that because it's the more equitable. So what you can do is also ensure that your interview panels are diverse. So no one person's bias determines an entire career trajectory. Like I said before, we know our differences make a difference, but I hiring managers also need to be held accountable.

And so companies and leaders, you need to make sure you're training your hiring managers to really help them to be successful. Sometimes the hiring manager is not the recruiter. Sometimes it's, you know, the person for the role that's being hired, could be their manager that is the hiring manager. And so we need to do better training for that. And that's of course something that we do at, you know, Hire Breakthrough because talent development and workplace development is our jam.

So that's the second thing. The third thing is that you have to invest in retention and advancement, not just hiring. It's not just about the hire. Hiring diverse talent is only the first step. But think about it like this. If mentorship, sponsorship, and leadership training aren't equitably distributed, you're going to continue to see the same people getting promoted while others get overlooked. So that's the third thing. And then...

The last thing, the fourth thing, is you have to challenge the narrative in your workplace. If you're in leadership and you hear someone say, they're only here because of DEI, push back, push back, because I've definitely been at tables where I've heard that and I've had to say something. You have to ask what exactly makes you think that this person is not qualified.

You have to challenge that. I've experienced it because not just because, of my race. I've experienced it because of that I'm a woman too, because of gender. So like I said before, DEI is not just about race. It's about a variety of factors. And when I've had, I've been at conversations or been at tables where I've heard this, I have to ask that question. What exactly makes you think that they're not qualified? And usually,

The person can't say anything. people will make these comments and really tell on themselves. And I'm like, let's talk about it. Why are they not qualified? Because what I'm looking at here, I'm looking at their resume, I'm looking at their interview, I'm looking at all of that stuff. It shows that they're qualified. So what exactly is the problem? You're to have to challenge that narrative in the workplace. And even if you are, a small business, it starts from the top.

So you really have to establish these parameters because if we're serious about hiring the best talent, then we need to be serious about challenging the biases that keep talent from being seen. So we really have to have that conversation. this conversation doesn't end here. I want to hear from you. Have you ever been questioned because of who you are and not what you bring to the table? I have to raise my hand personally.

Or have you ever seen perception override merit in hiring promotions or leadership? Of course, I to raise my hand, but I want to hear from you. So drop a comment, like this episode and share it with someone who needs to hear this. And until next time, let's keep challenging the narrative, keep showing up and keep making an impact. that is something that we can do. And thank you for hanging out with me here today.

But I want you to stay tuned for the next episode because trust me, you don't want to miss this.

Kimone Napier (23:31)
Are you ready to stop chasing unicorns and hire diverse, qualified talent, but you need help with the full hiring process? If so, be sure to visit HireBreakthrough.com/scale so our team can help make your next right hire today.